TL;DR: The thing about Bartertown…

This is the first in a new series of posts by yours truly with the tag “TL;DR”. As you may have surmised by suffering through my blog these past few years, I write. A lot. And I am quite wordy (again, surprise, surprise). So when I write a blog post, I spew forth my ramblings onto the keyboard, and then I edit roughly 60-80 percent of it out. That’s right, horrified readers, you are only getting about a third of my drivel.

But once in a while, I will write something that cannot be edited down. Sometimes it’s an intricate philosophical point; sometimes it’s a post with some emotional content (although after I write that kind of post, I usually do the old “select-all, delete”).

And sometimes, it’s a detailed anecdote that may hold some value for beginning 40k enthusiasts. So begins my tale of commerce, deceit, intrigue, and ultimately, salvation for all parties involved.

Click to read about the pain!

Chillin’ at the BT
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Bartertown, it is a completely free, heavily-moderated miniatures and RPG trading conduit. By heavily-moderated, I mean that the administrators take an active hand in the day to day function of the site. They have clear and strict rules, and it has been around for quite a while.

Like I do with Ebay, I use Bartertown in spurts. When I am thinking of a new army or expanding an army (or if I’ve overbought), I will look to Bartertown for someone who either has what I need or wants what I have. There are cash transactions through PayPal, but I personally think it sort of “violates the fluff”, so I try to stay with trades. I have done about seven transactions there in the past two years.

They do not police transactions, so it’s purely Caveat Emptor, but they try to help you resolve issues. You can see what’s coming, right?

Burn the Heretic…and the Naïve Shipper
Recently, I came across an amazing deal on Battleforces at a local store. I’m not sure if they were closeouts or mispriced, but I couldn’t resist them and purchased them all. Many were snatched up right away by greedy FLGS acquaintances, and I was left with the Blood Angel Battleforce and Space Marine Battleforce

I decided to try to trade the SM BF for some Grey Knights. Here was the text of my ad:

Subject: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc

zeronyne wrote:
I have:

Three Space Wolves Packs, all NOS.
One set of Guard, NOS.

One Space Marine Battleforce, sealed.


I'm looking for NOS Grey Knight Troops and Termies, plus a Dreadknight. Retail value to retail value. So if you bought a stack of GK boxes but then thought better of it, how about giving Space Wolves a try?

Note: this will be my fifth transaction on BTown, and I have always been able to EVENTUALLY conclude the transaction, but it has at times taken a great deal of extra time and effort on my part, so I'd like to make a simple request. Please do not respond to this post if you are not able or willing to make this transaction a priority, cannot provide a method to communicate well, or cannot empathize with someone who ships first and is awaiting your equally prompt action. It shouldn't take a month to ship something or find the tracking number in your cell or check your voicemail.

Thanks.

You can see at the end of my post that I am fairly experienced with flaky transactors, especially with amateur musicians. I just wanted a simple transaction.

e: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:54 pm
by disel24

I'm interested in the Battleforce mainly. I have a box of termies and two sets of GK. LMk

So far so good. I make arrangements to ship first, since I have less feedback. I think I sent it on a Tuesday, and he received it on a Friday. He reported that it arrived in perfect condition.

The next week, he sends a message:

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:02 pm
by disel24

Busy day for me today, completing three trades, including this one. All sent out 

DC 0310 2640 0001 1503 6956

thank you for the trade. Have a good one

The problem is the tracking number. It’s invalid. He says it’s fine and that I should wait a few days. One week goes by. Nothing, and he’s provided no tracking number. It’s early in the process, but I can just feel that I’m about to get screwed.

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:09 pm
by zeronyne

Awesome, thank you!


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:47 pm
by zeronyne

Hi Johnathan, I don't mean to bug you again, but are you sure that you gave me the correct tracking number?
It's not showing in any system at all. In case you can't see the preceding posts, I've copied and pasted the number here that you gave me:
DC 0310 2640 0001 1503 6956
I'm not in any way worried about it's arrival. I would just like to know what day it's coming since they just leave it at my door.

Thanks!
Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:58 pm
by disel24

No worries, seems like the postal office in my area has issues, not the first time in the last two weeks that the numbers for tracking have not down progress right away. Give it time is the best I can say, sorry man.


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:16 pm
by zeronyne

Ok, we'll see what happens. Thanks for your quick reply.

 

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:09 am
by zeronyne

Hi Johnathan

Could you do me a favor and double check that DC number you sent me? It's still showing as unentered.
Thanks very much, I appreciate it.
Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:37 am
by disel24

ok, I don't have it with me. I'll double check it tonight when I get home man. Hope that's okay.

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:55 am
by zeronyne

That's absolutely fine. Thanks much for taking the time.

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:40 pm
by disel24

03102640000115036956
there it is


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:14 pm
by zeronyne

That is so strange. This is what I get from the Post office website:

You entered: 03102640000115036956
Sorry, there's no information for that number. It may not be in our system yet; please check back later.

I guess we'll just see if it shows up this week. I've never seen this happen before. Weird.
Thanks for checking for me.

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:33 pm
by zeronyne

Hi Johnathan,
If the package doesn't arrive by Monday, would you be willing to inquire at the post office for me, or could you send me a clear picture of the receipt? I'm worried since the tracking number doesn't even show up in their database, and it's been pretty long for even a parcel post package.

Let me know. Thanks

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:50 pm
by disel24

Sam,

I will definitely inquire for you, keep me posted. I sent out central other things that day and they have all reached their destinations except this one. I'll dig through my pocket lint see if I still have the receipt, I'm not the kind that usually keeps them.

This last part was the worrisome bit. If he didn't keep the receipt, how was he reciting the tracking number? And as you can see, I was asking over and over about it. There is actually more of this back and forth stuff I will spare you. And then things really went south  Read on…

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:16 am
by disel24

Sam

Talked to the postmaster and they are putting a trace on the box to figure out what happened. She did inform me however that since there was no insurance the usps wouldn't be paying if the box was lost or stolen, seems they have had an issue with shrinkage in the last bit and neglected to tell the customers. I'll keep you posted.


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:24 pm
by zeronyne

Lovely. Gotta love the post office. 

So you got a correct tracking number? If you could send it along, that would be great. At least we can look at it online.

Thanks

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:38 pm
by disel24

The tracer they are working off of has nothing to do with the tracking number sadly. It's some kind of inhouse thing, I'm supposed to touch base with her in a week see if she has anything. To me, that means that I'm touching base with her on Friday. The tracking number is right, that much is certain. The thinking is that someone has been skimming off the mail...a federal offense.


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:48 pm
by zeronyne

OK, thanks for keeping me in the loop. I will check back with you over the weekend. Thanks for your attention to the matter.

Sam 

  

Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:01 am
by zeronyne

Hi Johnathan,

I just wanted to confirm with you that I have not received a package, so you can tell the Post Office personnel that the package is positively missing. Let me know what they say so we can figure out what to do about this.

I understand if you can't get there today...tomorrow or Monday is fine.

Thanks
Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:42 am
by zeronyne

Hi Johnathan,

Could you let me know what you found out from the post office? I'd like to resolve this issue so we can both get it off of our plates.

Thanks

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:10 pm
by disel24

Hey man-

I went away on business for a few days but I was in contact with the Post Office. At this time they're bringing a guy up on charges for misrepresentation and theft. Seems he was skimming off the mail for a bit and the knicked a handful of packages that weekend that I sent out. They explained to me that they're going to be doing the best they can but it could be a few months before anything is resolved :/


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:33 pm
by zeronyne

Well, if that's the case, then I think it would be best if you sent the Battleforce back to me. I am willing to reimburse you the cost of shipping it back with delivery confirmation up to twenty dollars (after I receive it, of course). Alternatively, you could Paypal me $90.00, which does not cover my shipping to you, but it does cover the cost of the Battleforce.

I understand and empathize with the fact that you will be saddled with this, but I hope you can see this from my point of view. I also asked a moderator for clarification, and I think these are the two most equitable solutions, especially since there is a small chance you will be reimbursed within a few months.

Please let me know which option you would like to exercise.

Thanks very much for your clear and prompt communications.

Sam


Re: H:SW, SM W:GK, misc
Sent: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:39 pm
by zeronyne

Johnathan,

It's been five weeks since the beginning of this transaction, and I think I've been pretty understanding. I didn't doubt your integrity at any time despite the fact that you gave me a tracking number that was never entered into the USPS system, you could not produce a shipping receipt, and your contact with the post office (and their replies to you) were atypical of USPS protocol. I still am not doubting your integrity.

But I must again request that you abide by the rules of barter town and the US Postal Service and remedy this unfinished transaction. In my previous message, I laid out two options that are acceptable to me. Frankly, I thought that those options were better for you than purchasing the Grey Knight boxes you owe me, which is essentially your obligation.

Please let me know by Tuesday how you plan to complete this transaction, or I will be forced to take additional measures. I'm sorry it has come to this, but I'm sure you would feel the same if someone owed you a hundred bucks worth of stuff and started to get slow on the responses.

Thank you, 
Sam

At this point, I contacted two of the moderators on BT. They recommended a few actions. First, I was to initiate a Bad Trader Report on the site. Second, I should contact my Postal Inspector. Third, I should file a report with my local PD, since that is the procedure when you want to file in another state.

After starting this report, I contacted my local (Chicago) postal inspector’s office. They were very informative and let me know that no one had filed any theft charges at his zip code, so all of that may have been a lie. I then took a day off of work and went to my local PD to file a charge. The detective didn’t seem to know the procedure that I was proposing, but he was friendly and helpful. He asked for more info printed out, so I was going to return with the entire transcript of the transaction, my postal receipts, and all the info about Bartertown so he could have some background to work from.

I was also going to see if I could file in small claims court so his local sheriff would be compelled to serve a summons, but my wife said that was enough. With Halloween coming and my job pressures, she was trying to tell me to let it go.

Then a complete newcomer, posted this in that Bad Trader Report:

Re: BTR: Disel24by xenoman » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:56 pm
I know this guy, personally. I don't frequent these sites but I know that he did/does. The reason for his disappearance isn't anything as 'sinister' as it appears. He had a mental breakdown. Literally. It has been a very tough year for him and it got to him. 
These are the things that I know were going on for sure:
family went from 4 ppl to 6 with kids early this year.
had to move out of his place with his family and move into his mother in law's house
couldn't make ends meet
his father passed away on his birthday this year
he found out that his oldest has Asperger's. 
It got to be too much for him and he cracked. He's currently hospitalized and it will be a little bit before he can get out again. 
Did he send the figures that you are asking about? I don't know. It could be that he THOUGHT he did and didn't. However he wouldn't just NOT send you the figures. He's told me about some of the trades he's done on here that are worth a few hundred dollars each. I can't see him welching on something that's only 100 dollars, that seems a little out of place to me. 
So if you feel the need to follow this through with the authorities go ahead BUT I wanted to let you know that what is going on isn't vicious, it isn't ill meaning and it isn't theft. The man has mental issues that come first. 
Just thought you should know.

I was really infuriated. And please don’t try to tell me that this “might be true”. No one contacted me directly. No one called me. So on the day I had to put my poor dog to sleep, I decided to get my promised items at any cost. But real life intruded, and there were parties and soccer practices and trick or treating to prepare for.

Lo and behold, yesterday, a package shows up, and it’s the Battleforce I sent originally! It had been unsealed, but all was well.I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that someone from Bartertown talked to the guy and convinced him that I was not going to let this go.

So at the end of it all, I spent about $20.00, a day off of work, and several hours on the phone. Oh, let’s not forget the two months of waiting. All for what? To get back my original box. Sigh.

If you read the Bad Trader Report, you will see that there was nothing I could have really done differently. But I have to admit that in my case, the system worked. I had his name, address and phone number; I had my shipping receipts, and I kept all of the PM transcripts and inverted them into chronological order as a convenience for the moderators. It made everything easier.

So here’s what I recommend if you are a newbie to online trading want to check out Bartertown:

Don’t be afraid. It’s not a magical Nirvana where everyone is kind, but it’s not the Wild West either.

2.       If you are patient, you will enjoy it more. If you are not a patient person, be sure to let the other party know this very clearly before transacting.

Protect yourself. Keep every message and email. Get a full name and address (and phone number). Keep all receipts. Take a quick picture of the package before you send it. You all have phones that can take pictures, right?

4.      Be polite. Even when you are obviously getting jacked, do not threaten, swear, or lie. You need to be able to document everything and make sure nothing could be switched around by misinterpretation.

5.      If you do have a problem let the moderators know exactly what is happening. They have information that can help!